So, I got into another online argument. (When you’re as obstinate as I sometimes tend to get, it happens an awful lot.) This time, I went head-to-head with a regular opponent of mine, a breed of creature that I tend to dub the ‘Fandom Feminazi.” I’m sure everybody has met at least one - the kind of female ‘fan’ who seems to read comics or watch anime for no other reason than to find excuses, however small and obscure they may be, to rant about how today’s archaic patriarchal society is demeaning woman to keep them in roles of servitude.
Now, I want to make it real clear, this term is not one that I use to describe a feminist - someone who supports women’s rights, fights for equal rights between the sexes and enjoys the portrayal of strong female characters. I like feminists. I like to think I’m one them, and I’m proud to say that there’s more than one on my F-list.
Feminazis, on the other hand, are the bane of the feminist movement. They’re the stereotype that gets feminists so much bad press, the minority that makes the majority look bad. They claim to support equal rights for women, but what they really want is special treatment. They believe that the only way for a woman to truly be strong is to take on an excessively dominate role that forces the men in her life to be subordinate to her. They will deny these claims, but their actions speak otherwise.
I have a long list of complaints against feminzis, not the least of which being that they seem to take delight in ruining other peoples’ enjoyment of comic books. (If you find an entire fandom so offensive, why the hell are you in it? Nobody’s forcing you to read these books. I know that people hear this argument all the time and that just because you’re against sexism doesn’t mean you’re against superheroes, but feminazis are different - they don’t like anything about superhero comics because they’re so horrid, and yet they still buy them. WTF?)
But what’s got me riled this time is more a matter of semantics than anything else: I cannot tell you how sick I am of feminazis throwing all variations of the word ‘misogynous’ around. Feminazis love the term because it sounds political and it has such a damnable definition, ‘The hatred of women.’
So let me take a moment to make my point damn clear: Mainstream comic books are NOT misogynistic! Sexist, yes, while I don’t think that is near as bad as it has been in the past, but not misogynistic.
There is a huge difference.
Sexism is when a man looks at a woman and thinks, “Oh boy, is she hot! I bet that babe would look awesome in a bikini!” without thinking of her personality or the person behind it. Alternatively, it’s when the man thinks, “Well, she’s going to be useless in this fight. Women should stay in the kitchen.”
Misogynism is when a man looks at a woman and thinks, “Fuck that bitch. Anything that happens to her is ‘cause she’s got it coming. I bet she’d scream real nice when I torture her in my basement.”
Admittedly, there is still sexism in comics, though I believe it’s slowly-but-surely being eradicated. (That’s a lecture for another day) But, in mainstream comics at least, misgyonism is basically extinct. When it does rear it’s ugly head, once every decade or so, it is, without exception, a trait of antagonists. The villains. The ‘bad guys.’ If anything, their misgyonism is used as a way to vilify them in the eyes of the reader. That means it’s being used as an obviously bad thing - if the read doesn’t already realize that it’s bad, they will quickly associate it as such by the other characters’ reactions.
If you never realized this, then congratulations, you just utterly failed in a basic aspect of your average elementary-school level literature course.
Also, just so I don‘t have to put it in another rant: when a female character dies, it is not automatically misogynistic. I hear all these stupid arguments about how female deaths are overly-sexualized and gory. In this day and age, most deaths are gory, because it adds the shock factor - if you want blood and gore, look at the deaths of Kon-el, Bart Allen, Jack Drake, Alexander Luthor, Ted Kord and several dozen Green Lanterns (whom I cannot name on sight or whom were never really named.) during the Sinestro Corps storyline, not to mention the recent capture and torture of Kid Devil in Teen Titans. All of them bloody, all of them horrible, and all of them with male victims. Those are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head.
As for the deaths seeming sexual, let me tell you something - anything that any woman does will look more sexual than a man doing the same thing. Why? Because we evolved to have more obviously sexual physical traits than men, ie, hips and boobs. If I reach over from my computer desk to grab a pen, it will look more sexual than if my brother - who is the same relative size and build that I am - were to do the same, because my hips would shift and my boobs would jiggle.
And finally, anyone who argues that men aren’t being drawn to show off their chest, ass or crotch areas obviously don’t read very many comics - I quite enjoy the vast number of times we get really good looks at Nightwing’s ass or Robin decides to sit around without his shirt, thank-you-very-much.
I suppose, in conclusion, I should try to wrap up all my main points, which is simple enough: There is a vast difference between misgyonism and sexism and, while both are bad things, misgyonism is definitely the worse of the two and throwing the word around is borderline libel against the comic book industry. While said industry does have its sexist leanings, it is not by any means supporting any kind of misogynistic cause.
- Mood:
pissed off - Music:Lawnmower


Comments
I quite enjoy the vast number of times we get really good looks at Nightwing’s ass or Robin decides to sit around without his shirt, thank-you-very-much.
*... and seconds you*
Which comics are these?
I especially agree to 'anything that any woman does will look more sexual than a man doing the same thing' this might mistakenly be taken for exploiting women, most possibly by, feminazis you described.
What about 'Girl Power'? would you label that as Feminazi or just normal feminist, i ask because i would gladly support feminists but girl power to me sounds like the 'dominant role' that you were talking about.
What I meant by the 'dominant role' is that feminazis encourage women to follow role models who are excessively rude, egotistical, selfish and/or violent, as though these traits are admirable things that make one an independant. They're not - they just make you a jerk.
Just one detail: I think the noun form of mysogynistic is mysogyny, not misgyonism.
What bothers me is that feminazis pick the *stupidest* things to complain about - like the Green Lantern cover where the woman was the only one who *didn't* have a Black Mercy sucking on her chest. Or Supergirl's costume. Or other just...stupid stuff like that. And then they act like *they're* the victims when people mention that these are pretty dumb things to be so obsessed over.
And while I agree whole heartedly with pretty much everything you've said (to the point where I plan to ripp off some of your points here in my next "debate" with one of these people. With your permission, ofcourse) I have to argue with 1 of your definitions of sexism.
“Oh boy, is she hot! I bet that babe would look awesome in a bikini!” thinking of her personality or the person behind it
I've always beleived thats just basic human biology. I agree that it would be sexist to make assumptions on her personality based on how hot she is, but to focus entirly on how somone stimulates you sexually, on a purly physical level, I've always found that to be just par for the course of being human. yanno?
Like your example of shirtless robin. How much of his personality goes into his chiseled abs? or Nightwing. Personality wise he's a DICK. you still enjoy looking at his but regardless of his personality flaws. sexy is sexy, is what im getting at.
Also:
If I reach over from my computer desk to grab a pen, it will look more sexual than if my brother - who is the same relative size and build that I am - were to do the same
That entirly depends on the angle your being veiwed at. If im not carful, and I lean forward for any reason in the company of my GF, I run the risk of feeling a WII remote heading for my butthole to the sound of heavy breathing, and the most obscene dirty talk. My GF has a weird sence of humour, tho.
Anyway, that one point aside, I agree with you entirly.
sorry for butting in.
*disappeares back to read more of WFA*
And, uh, I have to ask - what WFA? Why are they pointing people to my journal? And why have I never heard of them before?
When Fangirls Attck: http://womenincomics.blogspot.com/
They sometimes link to the more... fringe elements of modern feminism, but by and large they show healthy variety. I find it to be quite encouraging and comforting in the face of the more dramatic or even potentially harmful comic-feminist groups (read "girl-wonder")
Anyway, unless your David Sim it tends to be a pretty good thing to be linked on their site.
Anywhoo, sorry to have invaded yout journal in this way. I just enjoy... well arguing, clearly, but its always nice to talk to feminists who share my ideals.
Do you honestly believe that women who disagree with you on sexism in comic books deserve to be called Nazis? Really? The fact that they think, say, that Mary Jane statue was objectifying, means that they are equivalent to a genocidal, totalitarian military regime?
I don't know if you know the origins of that term, but it started with Rush Limbaugh. Yes, some feminists have tried to reclaim it. Others, like you now and like I once did, have used it to refer to "bad" feminists. And yes, some feminists are also misandrists. But one, I really don't think the people who state those viewpoints you mentioned hate men and two, using a term like "feminazi" is both dismissive and it charges the feminists with a position of power that they don't have. These so-called "feminiazis" aren't in charge of comics and while they may want things a certain way and want them strongly, that doesn't make them equivalent to a genocidal, totalitarian state.
And really, if you struck them with that term from the beginning, do you think anybody who holds those beliefs would want to listen to you after that? I actually agree with you on your views of sexism vs. misogyny but your use of an inflammatory and smear-painting term makes me not want to listen to you outright.
I'm not asking you to change your position on anything, but I hope you will consider what I said if you use that term in the future.
Nazi groups believe in the total superioirty of the Aryan (white) race. As such, they hate Jews and all other races whom they feel to be 'infrior'. They feel that the white man is being 'kept down' and that these 'infirior' species deserve to be put in their place so that the white man can get the special treatment they deserve.
Feminazis believe in the total superiorty of the female half of the species. As such, they hate men and see them as 'infrior' and yes, I do believe that feminazis hate men while feminists do not. They believe that women are being 'kept down' by men and that the 'infrior' specimins need to be shown their place so that women can get the special treatment they deserve. Luckily, they are a minority in the feminist world, but they definitly deserve they label.
That said, the argument is actually about the word mysognism being thrown around inappropriately. I just got into the feminazi thing because I was ticked off.
On another note entirely - WTF is WFA and why are they pointing people to this rant in my journal? I have a feeling it doesn't mean the World Fighting Association...
It stands for "When Fangirls Attack!" It is a linkblog that covers the topic of women in comics, espeically feminist-minded stuff.
Personally, though, I think it's more a watchdog post, so they can gather all those they see as "enemies" into one place to bring down the righteous fires of angry women on those whom they deem "misogynists." After all, the place does have "attack" in the name. Who are you attacking, if not who you preceive as "the enemy?"
The admins of the blog say they don't judge or take sides, but really, once you look around the place, you'll see just how untrue that is.
Feminazis believe in the total superiorty of the female half of the species. As such, they hate men and see them as 'infrior' and yes, I do believe that feminazis hate men while feminists do not. They believe that women are being 'kept down' by men and that the 'infrior' specimins need to be shown their place so that women can get the special treatment they deserve. Luckily, they are a minority in the feminist world, but they definitly deserve they label.
And you think some people on the Internet saying some comics are misogynist is equivalent to man hating? Actual "men-are-inferior-and-they-should-be-gas
Also, having actually read some radical feminist literature, I can name one, maybe two feminists who fit THAT definition of feminist misandry, and both of them are dead.
That said, the argument is actually about the word mysognism being thrown around inappropriately. I just got into the feminazi thing because I was ticked off.
And pegging people as genocidal killers because they don't like Supergirl's skirt is so much better? Okay.
In the 1920's, the true Nazis had no power either. They were justa fringe political group, whom most folks found sadly humorous (the thought being, if you wanted a good laugh in 1920's Germany, you'd tell a Hitler or Nazis joke).
But despite having no power, they still prattled on with their hateful clap-trap. Until, in 1933, Hitler attained power in Germany. And the rest, well, we know what happened after that, don't we?
My point? Just because some hateful-minded, rhetoric-spewing group doesn't have power, doesn't mean they are "harmless" or should be ignored. History has shown us that usually leads to some very bad times.
If these "feminazis" don't like being called that, then they shouldn't act out in that way. Because their every utterence only makes those who see them for what they are, as just as dangerous as the real Nazis were, even when they had no power.
So I will continue to use the term because it is an effective description of these people.
Again, as I said above, if you go by a direct comparison of what the Nazis did, against what "feminazis" have done thus far, you are right.
But in a broader sense, in the some of the tactics and arguments these "feminazis" use to coerce people to their way or thinking, or surpress those whom they cannot coerce, the comparison actually has a very eerie similarity that cannot, and should not, be overlooked or ignored.
It only appears to be a stretch, because these "feminazis" haven't attained a level of power they can use to abuse others with (and it certainly isn't from a lack of desire or attempt on their part). Do we really need to sit around as wait for that to happen, before we see these people for what they are? When it comes to those who use hate speech and fear mongering to make people fall into line with what they think should be concerning any given topic, it seems pretty clear to me that Nazis propoganda tactics is a pretty fair call to make.
I liked your post, and I found it through WFA. I read that blog of links to other blogs regularly, and I in no way hold a radical agenda on anything but the superiority of sound and valid reasoning. So don't write them off just for their name or what it seems like their position is based on the traffic they drive to your blog. Don't get me wrong, there will be drama, but the actual 3 ladies that run the blog are cool. They can't really be held responsible for the fringe elements of their readership.
Keep up the good work because you have definitely made some great points about the distinction between (what I would consider) real feminism and the type of feminism that nitpicks and henpecks over stupid crap just to seem hip. These are the same people who would be complaining about too many overweight ladies being exploited in art during the Victorian age. It just so happens that skinny and big breasted is the modern era's Rubenesque. In 50 years if short, flat, Olympic gymnast looking women become the new model standard, they'll hate that too.
Maybe just pick ANY other label for the mere rhetorical sake of keeping the fence-sitters engaged instead of ready to go off on a tangential rant over some word they find offensive regardless of its context.
To be perfectly honest, the only reason I used the term at all is because I wanted to differinciate between the reasonable feminists that I support and the, as you put it, the type that henpicks over stuff just to seem hip. I don't kno what else I'm supposed to call these jerks - if I use any variation of the term "feminist" or "uber-feminist" somebody's going to bitch about how I'm misrepresenting the feminist movement; if I use anything like "Womyn" I'm going to get yelled at by that particular faction of the movement. I figured I'd just use a term that was suitably negetive but that nobody (I thought) took seriously enough to really take offense at.
And really, I've just about had it up to here with these people bitching at me because I chose a word that's not politically correct. So other people can go about using "retard" and "gay" as casual insults for anything they dislike, but I get smashed for using a term that's actually discriptive of the people I'm talking about?
I haven't made a final decision about WFA yet. Really, I'd be all for this if they're just, I don't know, dropped me an e-mail or a comment before randomly deciding to link my rant. Just randomly pulling my rant out of the mess of the internet seems somewhat rude. It would've been nice to give me a heads-up, especially since this sudden flood of people just about scared me half to death.
Thanks for the support, but I don't think there's anything in the world that I can change it to without insulting *somebody* on the fence. I figure I might as well stick with the term I started with.